Funny

Modern thought v. Coherent thought

August 4, 2010

We are babysitting a little dude (11 years old) who is a  prime candidate for Most Medicated, Therapied and Counseled child of the decade.  Seriously.

He comes from good grandparents who raised a drug using idiot of a daughter.   L’il C got stuck in the middle.

He’s not great with people.  He won’t eat 80% of food out there.  Deals with extreme anger issues and is a pretty obnoxious child.

Unless he’s here.

Here he is respectful.   Thoughtful.  Kind.

Because the options are obvious, clearly stated and Not Worth It.

Monday my #2 boy is antagonizing him.  This is boy behavior for which he has been reprimanded. Twice.

Now fast forward to the afternoon.   #2 is teasing L’il C.   L’il C looses cool and throws a sword at #2.   Misses the first time.  Picks up the sword and throws it again.  #2 experiences the mind-numbing pain of being squarely beaned in the twig and berries.

While I don’t approve of aggressive behavior in a child who doesn’t understand common courtesy…  I didn’t feel particularly sorry for #2.   Although I did offer an ice pack.  I am all about the compassion through deeds.

Now…  Wander with me into Tuesday morning.   We are at a park.   The boys are collecting scorpions.  They are small, non-poisonous high-desert scorpions.   I don’t want them at my house so the boys know this is solely a catch and release sport.

Until the boy they are playing with fills his bottle with dirt and scorpions and announces they are going home with him.

Cue L’il C…  “Nooo!” he wails.  “They are a living beeieinngg… We must not hurt or harm any living beeinngg.!!!”   And #2, being easily moved by the most passionate voice in the area, joins in.  It’s un-faiiarrrrarararararar!! (of course it’s only unfair because he doesn’t get to bring one home to fight with Madame Arachnid, the tarantula)

Ready for the Modern Thought Fail?  If you haven’t gotten there already?

It’s ok to hit your friend in the cojones, to borrow a word from Mrs. Palin,  but killing or hurting an insect is….

Wrong.

Modern thought?

Fail.

  • Of course its OK to hit your friend. This is a boy thing, the kid had it coming because of the teasing. That’s how boys learn to respect other boys. Trash talk is OK right up to the point you get popped one.

    To do harm to something that is defenseless is another story. The kids moral compass might be dented but major parts are still doing fine. He sees the big picture even if its only with a boys understanding.

  • I suppose you’d have to understand this boys perspective. THROTTLING my son wouldn’t be far from his realm of acceptable behaviors. So throwing something with the intent to harm his friend? A toe in the ocean perhaps but the rest of the body wouldn’t be far behind. The boys wrestle all the time. Throw down WWF wrestling, they shoot each other with air guns, etc. BUT, L’il C throwing something, in anger, as a method of controlling and hurting someone else?

    I find that unacceptable.

    As for the “poor defenseless scorpion”? They were going home to a pristine high desert terrarium where they will be observed, fed and cared for before being released back into the world.

    L’il C was doing his best to impose a moral code upon the rest of the group that made no sense. Still makes no sense to me. And it won’t be encouraged.

    🙂

  • Serena

    It does not damage the male psyche to be taught that there are right ways of dealing with things. It is never right to throw a sword, no matter what type, at another person because you are angry. The potential for harm is too great. Proverbs 16:32 says – “Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city.” A part of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. I agree with you, Heidi, and I wouldn’t encourage it, either.

  • Giraffe

    Sounds like the modern idea that non-human life is sacred: Save the whales!, meat is murder, etc. This versus the idea that people are a dime a dozen.

    Odd contradiction. People are nothing special, yet we can save the world from ourselves.

    God says we are created in His image, and we can do nothing apart from him.

  • Giraffe

    Another thing, funny how kids always behave better at someone else’s house.

  • AJW308

    Res said exactly what I was going to say. Your son was pushing the line, the bug is defenseless.

    Being a guy I get it.

    My son’s BM did drugs, drank and smoked though she promised us she’d keep clean during the pregnancy. I can relate to your charges behavior, though I’d point out it’s probably not so much anger issues as the unability to regulate anger at things that deserve some anger.

    Fine line, I know, but I’ll draw it and dare anyone to cross it;)

  • Just a thought, in regards to AJW & Res’ comments… A child (and I do mean CHILD) must first be taught self-control before they are allowed the privilege of expressed anger toward another person.

    I’m not afraid of anger. I have clear parameters which will be adhered to in my home. And, with any child who comes here I have made it clear that I will refuse to allow a child who cannot control himself to remain very long.

    I realize I probably didn’t give y’all enough information in how we have, over the past 3 years, learned to respond to L’il C. Suffice it to say, he has far better tools than hurting someone to resolve an issue. And he knows better.

    In this case, my son had already apologized before he was hit in the most sensitive and demoralizing of areas. Intentionally. By a child who then thought it was humorous.

    I didn’t and don’t agree with that behavior.

    This was not normal boy behavior. But one child using force to attempt to control the behavior of the boys around himself and establish dominance. A behavior completely unnecessary in a well-established friendship of several years.

    And it was complete disobedience to previously stated guidelines of behavior.

    Which opens a whole new can of whoopie.

  • Serena

    Wow, that controlling and manipulating of another person is again an issue. Never okay in males or females in my most humble opinion!

  • Heidi,

    Sounds like the boy is depressed. Anger is a typical male symptom of depression and is a BIG reason why it goes undiagnosed. Could certainly explain the anger issues. Of course it could also be a lack of coping mechanisms for stress. Kids who have a poor vocabulary are unable to express in words and so act out in something else that gets their point across.

    Just my two cents

  • Hedi,

    You didn’t give us all of that info from the start.

    No hitting isn’t right. We teach our kids the same thing at home.

    However, two boys mixing it up over disrespect is nothing unusual. In any normal situation it would be nothing to get upset about.

    “allowed the privilege of expressed anger toward another person”

    Sorry you’re wrong. Anger is a God given response to stimuli. It is not a privilege to express anger, it is a natural response. Appropriate response is the key. As a point of fact, depending on the circumstances, an appropriate response may range from saying “I don’t like it when…” to killing the offender. The boy getting angry isn’t the problem, his action when angry was.

    In this particular situation two wrongs don’t make a right. Striking back gave the boy a sense of power and control, just like you observed. Why did he need that feeling of control? Because he lost his sense of dignity. All other issues with this kids development not withstanding, this is absolutely normal behavior in boys.

    There is no underlying social issue or modern thought process here. Two boys tried to prove who was number one. One called names and one hit him back. Boys do this, its part of growing up. Its a teaching opportunity for parents, not a sign of ill tidings.

  • One last thought.

    Just because mom says its over, doesn’t mean its over.

    Boys can beat the snot out of each other, get caught and talked to by mom, and then go right back to beating the snot out of each other as soon as her back is turned. The next day they will both be black and blue but they will go right back to being friends. This makes no sense to mom but the boys will be ok with it.

  • Res, first I do apologize for not giving more information. It was a humorous anecdote that I didn’t believe required such lengthy background nor did I expect such strong opinions. In regards to your most recent comments? I do respectfully disagree with you on several points…

    1. I’m right about the privilege of expressed anger. It’s a truth applied throughout childhood which keeps you out of jail as an hormonally challenged teen and into adulthood. The self-control to which I am referring is that which is taught to toddlers and very young children. So when they do “work it out” as older children they aren’t strangling each other, beating in someone’s head with rocks (grown up Lego bricks) and falling into brutality. Which is within the nature of man to do. L’il C has had absolutely none of that type of training, therefore, when he lashes out it is not to an appropriate degree equal to the provocation or situation.

    2. If my sons were in a situation where they were “beating the snot out of each other” and were “talked” to by mom there is an expectation of obedience. If they choose to go back to it as soon as I walk away? We are dealing with a far greater issue than the bruises they may inflict on each other. Now we are talking about disrespect to the authority figure (mom in this case) and disobedience to a directive. Both ungodly and unrighteous responses to correction.

    I don’t care if they “tussle”. Every boy should wrassle. I said that #2 was “antagonizing” the other boy. I didn’t say he was calling names. He had picked up a toy which belonged to the other boy and was expecting a chase, not bruises.

    I suppose my house is different because, well, we don’t trash talk each other. It’s disrespectful and devaluing of the person to whom we are talking. And that’s my husbands viewpoint, not mine, so don’t think it’s some attempt to “girlify” the boys. It was my father’s viewpoint as well and, without going into lengthy details, he is absolutely NOT your modern man.

    3. I do believe G-d has given us anger as a tool. One of many. Still, it is not a G-d given right to express that anger in any way you feel like at the moment. Wisdom would dictate that you respond appropriately given the wide and far-reaching variables of each distinctive situation. We aren’t actually disagreeing here as I had already previously stated that I wasn’t “afraid of anger” but merely found a disproportionate response to be in question here.

    4. The “modern” thought process which made me giggle here had nothing to do with boy dominance and establishing the pecking order. Good grief, that goes back to Cain and Abel. I don’t think you think I’m stoopid, so I’ll assume that you got sidetracked in the discussion.

    The “modern” thought was that this child believed an insect, no matter how defenseless, had greater value and was worth protecting to a greater degree than the human being next to him. That thought process is mirrored throughout America extensively as we “save the whales” and drown in the blood of an aborted generation.

    That was the fail. Not child dynamics.

  • Hedi,

    My friend, we are talking past each other. We are not in any substantial disagreement about this. I have read things into your comments that were not warranted, and I think maybe you have done the same. You are right: I got side tracked.

    Boys will be boys. It’s the parents job to help them become men. Self control and emotional discernment is required for maturity. I do not tolerate disrespect in my house in any form, trash talk or other wise. Kids however will be kids and test that boundary. Testing to see where the line is and how its defended is part of growing up. Hopefully they gain some wisdom when they test the limits and are corrected.

    This kind of behavior is “normal” in boys, in the sense that engaging in it is common. Correcting the situation is expected, at least in my world. I suspect that we share similar view points on what is and what is not acceptable behavior form our kids. Even if we don’t share a common vocabulary and assumptions when blogging about it.

  • I think online discussions can be as confusing as discussing Jesus with Mormons!!!

    😉

    Thanks, Res, for continuing the discussion and bearing with me. I do believe we better understand each other now.

    The Mr. & I were talking about online “fellowship” just today and I think this was a fine example of being encouraged and sharpened to think and defend and find ways to communicate more efficiently.

    Even on teh interwebs.

  • The “modern” thought was that this child believed an insect, no matter how defenseless, had greater value and was worth protecting to a greater degree than the human being next to him.

    There were numerous calls that I not “a-salt” the slug that was on my chair today. This in a room full of guys, where the talk can get rather crass from time to time. Its not just the young ones.

    For the record, I did not “a-salt” the slug, but took it back outside and left it by a bush to go back to doing whatever it is slugs do.

Funny

Modern thought v. Coherent thought

We are babysitting a little dude (11 years old) who is a  prime candidate for Most Medicated, Therapied and Counseled child of the decade.  Seriously.

He comes from good grandparents who raised a drug using idiot of a daughter.   L’il C got stuck in the middle.

He’s not great with people.  He won’t eat 80% of food out there.  Deals with extreme anger issues and is a pretty obnoxious child.

Unless he’s here.

Here he is respectful.   Thoughtful.  Kind.

Because the options are obvious, clearly stated and Not Worth It.

Monday my #2 boy is antagonizing him.  This is boy behavior for which he has been reprimanded. Twice.

Now fast forward to the afternoon.   #2 is teasing L’il C.   L’il C looses cool and throws a sword at #2.   Misses the first time.  Picks up the sword and throws it again.  #2 experiences the mind-numbing pain of being squarely beaned in the twig and berries.

While I don’t approve of aggressive behavior in a child who doesn’t understand common courtesy…  I didn’t feel particularly sorry for #2.   Although I did offer an ice pack.  I am all about the compassion through deeds.

Now…  Wander with me into Tuesday morning.   We are at a park.   The boys are collecting scorpions.  They are small, non-poisonous high-desert scorpions.   I don’t want them at my house so the boys know this is solely a catch and release sport.

Until the boy they are playing with fills his bottle with dirt and scorpions and announces they are going home with him.

Cue L’il C…  “Nooo!” he wails.  “They are a living beeieinngg… We must not hurt or harm any living beeinngg.!!!”   And #2, being easily moved by the most passionate voice in the area, joins in.  It’s un-faiiarrrrarararararar!! (of course it’s only unfair because he doesn’t get to bring one home to fight with Madame Arachnid, the tarantula)

Ready for the Modern Thought Fail?  If you haven’t gotten there already?

It’s ok to hit your friend in the cojones, to borrow a word from Mrs. Palin,  but killing or hurting an insect is….

Wrong.

Modern thought?

Fail.